From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Feb 27 15:25:31 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Carl Gish)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:25:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Message-ID: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

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Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet =0A=0A1) I'm getting a new main =
made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute=
 for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft=
 sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirem=
ent in the class association rules and regulations. What size sail do most =
boats carry? the measurements I am using are=A0 I: 45.00=0AJ: 13.48=0AP: 39=
.10=0AE: 13.10=0A=A0=0A2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've che=
cked out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudd=
er bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunt=
ing task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there w=
as a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder? =0A=
=A0=0AThanks in advance for any quidance/advice=0A=A0=0ARegards=0A=A0=0ACar=
l=0APressure Drop 
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
2pt;color:#000000;"><DIV>Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet </DIV>=
=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wonderin=
g what the most appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail =
that has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main =
sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class asso=
ciation rules and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the meas=
urements I am using are&nbsp; <FONT face=3DTimesNewRoman,Bold size=3D5><FON=
T face=3DTimesNewRoman,Bold size=3D5>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><STR=
ONG>I: 45.00</STRONG></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>J=
: 13.48</STRONG></FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>P: 39.=
10</STRONG></FONT></P>=0A<P><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>E: 13.10</STRONG></FONT>=
</P>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P><FONT size=3D3>2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair a=
moint and I've checked out the extensive reading provided by a couple peopl=
e on changing rudder bearings on the site but before I take on what seems l=
ike a pretty daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expr=
ession) if there was a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/dro=
p the rudder? </FONT></P>=0A<P><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P><FONT =
size=3D3>Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice</FONT></P>=0A<P><FONT si=
ze=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P><FONT size=3D3>Regards</FONT></P>=0A<P><FONT =
size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P><FONT size=3D3>Carl</FONT></P>=0A<P><FONT s=
ize=3D3>Pressure Drop </FONT></P></FONT></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></div></body></html>
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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Feb 27 16:07:38 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Richard Saunders)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:07:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
References: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <118440.71367.qm@web83812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

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Hi Carl, =0A=0AMy racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten.=
=A0 My dacron cruising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2=A0full length top battens.=
=A0 The roach on both hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in ligh=
t=A0wind conditions. =A0 I have had no experience with the replacing rudder=
 bearings, yet.=A0 =0A=A0=0ADick Saunders=0AOut of Reach,=A0 Hull #18=0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo=
.com>=0ATo: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=0ASent: Friday, February 27, 2009 =
10:25:31 AM=0ASubject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop=0A=0A=0AT=
wo questions for the esteemed Frers fleet =0A=0A1) I'm getting a new main m=
ade and I'm wondering what the most appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute =
for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft =
sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the Is there a class requireme=
nt in the class association rules and regulations. What size sail do most b=
oats carry? the measurements I am using are=A0 I: 45.00=0AJ: 13.48=0AP: 39.=
10=0AE: 13.10=0A=A0=0A2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've chec=
ked out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudde=
r bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunti=
ng task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there wa=
s a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder? =0A=
=A0=0AThanks in advance for any quidance/advice=0A=A0=0ARegards=0A=A0=0ACar=
l=0APressure Drop 
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><DIV><FONT color=#000000>Hi Carl, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>My racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten.&nbsp; My dacron cruising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2&nbsp;full length top battens.&nbsp; The roach on both hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in light&nbsp;wind conditions. &nbsp; I have had no experience with the replacing rudder bearings, yet.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Dick Saunders</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Out of Reach,&nbsp; Hull #18<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif"><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Carl Gish &lt;carlgish@yahoo.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, February 27, 2009 10:25:31 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV>Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are&nbsp; <FONT face=TimesNewRoman,Bold size=5><FONT face=TimesNewRoman,Bold size=5>
<P align=left><FONT size=2><STRONG>I: 45.00</STRONG></FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=2><STRONG>J: 13.48</STRONG></FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=2><STRONG>P: 39.10</STRONG></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2><STRONG>E: 13.10</STRONG></FONT></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT size=3>2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT size=3>Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT size=3>Regards</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT size=3>Carl</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3>Pressure Drop </FONT></P></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Feb 27 16:36:14 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Neal Melanson)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:36:14 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
In-Reply-To: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d64faee0902270836r4979f241m2645602b84a89d40@mail.gmail.com>

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My rudder bearings in Vapor Trail were replaced before I bought the boat
with a hightech composite bearing product of unidentified origin, but over
time(7yrs) I had some slop develop at the upper bearing where the aluminum
rudder shaft fit to the composite bearing surface.  My fix for the shaft was
to re-surface the aluminum with an aluminum-epoxy product called Devcon
"F" and after 2 years I would say the work was a success.

Vapor Trail is still for sale, asking $55K.

Cheers,

Neal Melanson

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com> wrote:

>  Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
>
> 1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate
> cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc
> and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the
> Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and regulations.
> What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are
>
> *I: 45.00*
>
> *J: 13.48*
>
> *P: 39.10*
>
> *E: 13.10*
>
>
>
> 2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive
> reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the site
> but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was wondering
> (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relatively
> lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Carl
>
> Pressure Drop
>
>
>

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<div>My rudder bearings in Vapor Trail were replaced before I bought the bo=
at with a hightech composite bearing product of unidentified origin, but ov=
er time(7yrs) I had some slop develop=A0at the upper bearing where the alum=
inum rudder shaft fit to the composite bearing surface.=A0 My fix for the s=
haft was to re-surface the aluminum with an aluminum-epoxy product called D=
evcon &quot;F&quot;=A0and after 2 years I would say the work was a success.=
</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Vapor Trail is still for sale, asking $55K.=A0 </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Neal Melanson<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Carl Gish <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlgish@yahoo.com">carlgish@yahoo.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif">
<div>Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>1) I&#39;m getting a new main made and I&#39;m wondering what the most=
 appropriate cut us. I&#39;ve got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has mi=
nimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area r=
equirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class association rul=
es and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I =
am using are=A0 <font face=3D"TimesNewRoman,Bold" size=3D"5"><font face=3D"=
TimesNewRoman,Bold" size=3D"5">
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>I: 45.00</strong></font></p>
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>J: 13.48</strong></font></p>
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>P: 39.10</strong></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"2"><strong>E: 13.10</strong></font></p>
<p>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">2) Rudder slop - I&#39;ve got a fair amoint and I&#39;v=
e checked out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing=
 rudder bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty =
daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if th=
ere was a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?=
 </font></p>

<p><font size=3D"3"></font>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3"></font>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Regards</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3"></font>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Carl</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Pressure Drop </font></p></font></font></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Feb 27 17:07:09 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Dan Boyd)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:07:09 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
In-Reply-To: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFC94EA6B7.D68990E4-ON8525756A.005D426A-8525756A.005E0A0A@biogenidec.com>

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Carl,

Dropping the rudder is a challenge and requires a significant amount of 
'persuasion' aka force!  We have dropped WildThing's rudder twice, once in 
2003 to replace the rudder bearings and once in 2007 to install pedestal 
steering.  Its not that hard, but takes time & energy.

To remove the rudder:

Make sure you have a good sledge hammer and sacrificial wood of the 
diameter of the rudder stock  (so you don't hit the shaft directly)
Definitely apply marvel oil / liquid wrench or similar to the shaft / 
upper bearing with  for a week before (apply often).
Eat a large breakfast
Make sure the boat has extra jack stands in the back
Make sure you have blocking under the rudder
Start pounding


Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel:  1.617.679.2274
Fax:  1.617.679.3599




Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com> 
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
27-Feb-2009 10:25 AM
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 6.9 KB

To
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
cc

Subject
[frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop






Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet 
 
1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate 
cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc 
and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in 
the Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and 
regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am 
using are 
I: 45.00
J: 13.48
P: 39.10
E: 13.10
 
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive 
reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the 
site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was 
wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a 
relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder? 
 
Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
 
Regards
 
Carl
Pressure Drop 
 
 

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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Carl,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dropping the rudder is a challenge and
requires a significant amount of 'persuasion' aka force! &nbsp;We have
dropped WildThing's rudder twice, once in 2003 to replace the rudder bearings
and once in 2007 to install pedestal steering. &nbsp;Its not that hard,
but takes time &amp; energy.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">To remove the rudder:</font>
<br>
<ul>
<li><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Make sure you have a good sledge hammer
and sacrificial wood of the diameter of the rudder stock &nbsp;(so you
don't hit the shaft directly)</font>
<li><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Definitely apply marvel oil / liquid
wrench or similar to the shaft / upper bearing with &nbsp;for a week before
(apply often).</font>
<li><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Eat a large breakfast</font>
<li><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Make sure the boat has extra jack stands
in the back</font>
<li><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Make sure you have blocking under the
rudder</font>
<li><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Start pounding</font></ul>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dan Boyd<br>
Biogen Idec Inc<br>
Tel: &nbsp;1.617.679.2274<br>
Fax: &nbsp;1.617.679.3599<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Carl Gish &lt;carlgish@yahoo.com&gt;</b>
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">27-Feb-2009 10:25 AM</font>
<table border>
<tr valign=top>
<td bgcolor=white>
<div align=center><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to<br>
frers-list@lists.frers33.com</font></div></table>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Message Size: <b>6.9 KB</b></font>
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">[frers-list]Main sail area and rudder
slop</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering
what the most appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail
that has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main
sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class
association rules and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry?
the measurements I am using are &nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2><b>I: 45.00</b></font>
<p><font size=2><b>J: 13.48</b></font>
<p><font size=2><b>P: 39.10</b></font>
<p><font size=2><b>E: 13.10</b></font>
<p><font size=5>&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=3>2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked
out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder
bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting
task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was
a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder? </font>
<p><font size=5>&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=3>Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice</font>
<p><font size=5>&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=3>Regards</font>
<p><font size=5>&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=3>Carl</font>
<p><font size=3>Pressure Drop </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<br>
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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Feb 27 17:13:14 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:13:14 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Message-ID: <20090227171315.TATQ25636.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

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I can't tell from the diagram posted on the web site what information is sp=
ecified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to "original spec=
" for everything rather than explicitly stating.

I am rated with the following I=3D45, J=3D13.33, P=3D39.12, E=3D15.12

Double check the E or foot length for a typo.

The class does not specify a sail area so you are free to experiment with r=
oach. But you are limited by the requirement for a fixed backstay as origin=
ally designed. Like Dick, my 3DL Main is a pain to tack in light winds so d=
on't go too far with roach. I'll try to look up more specs tonight.

Dropping the rudder isn't too much trouble as long as the bolts at the head=
 and radial aren't frozen. I had to drill things out, but you may be more f=
ortunate. Now I can drop it inside of about 15 mins!

Good luck,
Art
=0A=
=0A=
-----Original Message-----=0A=
From: Richard Saunders <rhsaund@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop

Hi Carl,=20
=A0
My racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten.=A0 My dacron cr=
uising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2=A0full length top battens.=A0 The roach on=
 both hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in light=A0wind conditi=
ons. =A0 I have had no experience with the replacing rudder bearings, yet.=
=A0=20
=A0
Dick Saunders
Out of Reach,=A0 Hull #18

From: Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com>
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:25:31 AM
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop

Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
=A0
1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate =
cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc a=
nd another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the=
 Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and regulation=
s. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are=A0 =
=20
I: 45.00
J: 13.48
P: 39.10
E: 13.10
=A0
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive =
reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the site=
 but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was wonderin=
g (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relatively lightwe=
ight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?=20
=A0
Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
=A0
Regards
=A0
Carl
Pressure Drop=20
=A0
=A0=

--_B7722589-F009-68EA-3424-5A14529F50F6_
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<HTML><head><style type=3D"text/css"> DIV {margin:0px;} </style></head><bod=
y><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-WEIGHT:Normal;">=
I can't tell from the diagram posted on the web site what information is sp=
ecified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to "original spec=
" for everything rather than explicitly stating.<br><br>I am rated with the=
 following I=3D45, J=3D13.33, P=3D39.12, E=3D15.12<br><br>Double check the =
E or foot length for a typo.<br><br>The class does not specify a sail area =
so you are free to experiment with roach. But you are limited by the requir=
ement for a fixed backstay as originally designed. Like Dick, my 3DL Main i=
s a pain to tack in light winds so don't go too far with roach. I'll try to=
 look up more specs tonight.<br><br>Dropping the rudder isn't too much trou=
ble as long as the bolts at the head and radial aren't frozen. I had to dri=
ll things out, but you may be more fortunate. Now I can drop it inside of a=
bout 15 mins!<br><br>Good luck,<br>Art<br></span><br><br><hr><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">From: </span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:normal;">Richard Saun=
ders &lt;rhsaund@yahoo.com&gt;</span><br><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">Sent: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:normal;">Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 =
AM</span><br><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:=
bold">To: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-wei=
ght:normal;">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</span><br><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:bold">Subject: </span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma; font-weight:normal;">Re: [frers-list]Ma=
in sail area and rudder slop</span><br><br><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma=
, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><div><font color=3D"#000000">Hi Ca=
rl, </font></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><font color=3D"#000000">My racing ma=
in is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten.&nbsp; My dacron cruising ma=
in is 305 sq.ft. with 2&nbsp;full length top battens.&nbsp; The roach on bo=
th hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in light&nbsp;wind conditi=
ons. &nbsp; I have had no experience with the replacing rudder bearings, ye=
t.&nbsp; </font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>&nbsp;</div><div>=
<font color=3D"#000000">Dick Saunders</font></div><div><font color=3D"#0000=
00">Out of Reach,&nbsp; Hull #18<br></font></div><div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
0pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif"><br><div style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><font face=
=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><hr size=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">=
From:</span></b> Carl Gish &lt;carlgish@yahoo.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"=
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br><b><span =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 27, 2009 10:2=
5:31 AM<br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> [frers-=
list]Main sail area and rudder slop<br></font><br><div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><div>Two q=
uestions for the esteemed Frers fleet</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>1) I'm get=
ting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate cut us. I'=
ve got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc and another=
 for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the Is there =
a class requirement in the class association rules and regulations. What si=
ze sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are&nbsp; <font fa=
ce=3D"TimesNewRoman,Bold" size=3D"5"><font face=3D"TimesNewRoman,Bold" size=
=3D"5"> <p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>I: 45.00</strong></font>=
</p><p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>J: 13.48</strong></font></p>=
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>P: 39.10</strong></font></p><p><=
font size=3D"2"><strong>E: 13.10</strong></font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font s=
ize=3D"3">2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the =
extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings o=
n the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I wa=
s wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relative=
ly lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder? </font></p><p><fo=
nt size=3D"3"></font>&nbsp;</p><p><font size=3D"3">Thanks in advance for an=
y quidance/advice</font></p><p><font size=3D"3"></font>&nbsp;</p><p><font s=
ize=3D"3">Regards</font></p><p><font size=3D"3"></font>&nbsp;</p><p><font s=
ize=3D"3">Carl</font></p><p><font size=3D"3">Pressure Drop </font></p></fon=
t></font></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div></div></div></div></div></=
body></HTML>=

--_B7722589-F009-68EA-3424-5A14529F50F6_--


From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 01:43:48 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Rich Peirce)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:43:48 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
In-Reply-To: <20090227171315.TATQ25636.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20090227171315.TATQ25636.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <ef028b830902271743j6ef42bc7u7bc6f220d7fb86d7@mail.gmail.com>

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I also removed my rudder last year.  I was fortunate to have cooperative
bolts and so much slop that I was able to drop the rudder with little pain.
My bushing howerver were epoxied to the rudder shaft rather than cold
pressed in the rudder tube.  I mixed an epoxy and aluminum power mixture
that was applied to the shaft and sanded down.  I purchased new bushing from
vesconite and cold pressed them in place.

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>wrote:

> I can't tell from the diagram posted on the web site what information is
> specified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to "original
> spec" for everything rather than explicitly stating.
>
> I am rated with the following I=45, J=13.33, P=39.12, E=15.12
>
> Double check the E or foot length for a typo.
>
> The class does not specify a sail area so you are free to experiment with
> roach. But you are limited by the requirement for a fixed backstay as
> originally designed. Like Dick, my 3DL Main is a pain to tack in light winds
> so don't go too far with roach. I'll try to look up more specs tonight.
>
> Dropping the rudder isn't too much trouble as long as the bolts at the head
> and radial aren't frozen. I had to drill things out, but you may be more
> fortunate. Now I can drop it inside of about 15 mins!
>
> Good luck,
> Art
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: Richard Saunders <rhsaund@yahoo.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
>
>  Hi Carl,
>
> My racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten.  My dacron
> cruising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2 full length top battens.  The roach on
> both hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in light wind conditions.
>   I have had no experience with the replacing rudder bearings, yet.
>
> Dick Saunders
> Out of Reach,  Hull #18
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com>
> *To:* frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2009 10:25:31 AM
> *Subject:* [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
>
>  Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
>
> 1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate
> cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc
> and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the
> Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and regulations.
> What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are
>
> *I: 45.00*
>
> *J: 13.48*
>
> *P: 39.10*
>
> *E: 13.10*
>
>
>
> 2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive
> reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the site
> but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was wondering
> (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relatively
> lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Carl
>
> Pressure Drop
>
>
>

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I also removed my rudder last year.=A0 I was fortunate to have cooperative =
bolts and so much slop that I was able to drop the rudder with little pain.=
=A0 My bushing howerver were epoxied to the rudder shaft rather than cold p=
ressed in the rudder tube.=A0 I mixed an epoxy and aluminum power mixture t=
hat was applied to the shaft and sanded down.=A0 I purchased new bushing fr=
om vesconite and cold pressed them in place.<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Arthur Kelley =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">akelley@optonline.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Aria=
l">I can&#39;t tell from the diagram posted on the web site what informatio=
n is specified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to &quot;o=
riginal spec&quot; for everything rather than explicitly stating.<br>
<br>I am rated with the following I=3D45, J=3D13.33, P=3D39.12, E=3D15.12<b=
r><br>Double check the E or foot length for a typo.<br><br>The class does n=
ot specify a sail area so you are free to experiment with roach. But you ar=
e limited by the requirement for a fixed backstay as originally designed. L=
ike Dick, my 3DL Main is a pain to tack in light winds so don&#39;t go too =
far with roach. I&#39;ll try to look up more specs tonight.<br>
<br>Dropping the rudder isn&#39;t too much trouble as long as the bolts at =
the head and radial aren&#39;t frozen. I had to drill things out, but you m=
ay be more fortunate. Now I can drop it inside of about 15 mins!<br><br>
Good luck,<br>Art<br></span><br><br>
<hr>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Fro=
m: </span><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Tahoma">Richard Saunders &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rhsaund@yahoo.com" target=
=3D"_blank">rhsaund@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
<span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Sen=
t: </span><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 Tahoma">Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 AM</span>=20
<div><br><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Ta=
homa">To: </span><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-=
FAMILY: Tahoma"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_=
blank">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></span><br>
</div><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahom=
a">Subject: </span><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FON=
T-FAMILY: Tahoma">Re: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop</span><br>
<br>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif"=
>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Hi Carl, </font></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">My racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full lengt=
h top batten.=A0 My dacron cruising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2=A0full length=
 top battens.=A0 The roach on both hit the backstay and often annoyingly ha=
ng up in light=A0wind conditions. =A0 I have had no experience with the rep=
lacing rudder bearings, yet.=A0 </font></div>

<div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Dick Saunders</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Out of Reach,=A0 Hull #18<br></font></div></di=
v>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif"=
><br>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">
<hr size=3D"1">
<b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Carl Gish &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:carlgish@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">carlgish@yahoo.com</a>&gt;=
=20
<div><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mai=
lto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">frers-list@lists.frers3=
3.com</a><br></div>
<div><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, February=
 27, 2009 10:25:31 AM<br></div>
<div><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> [frers-list]M=
ain sail area and rudder slop<br></div></font>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif">
<div>Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>1) I&#39;m getting a new main made and I&#39;m wondering what the most=
 appropriate cut us. I&#39;ve got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has mi=
nimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area r=
equirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class association rul=
es and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I =
am using are=A0 <font face=3D"TimesNewRoman,Bold" size=3D"5"><font face=3D"=
TimesNewRoman,Bold" size=3D"5">
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>I: 45.00</strong></font></p>
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>J: 13.48</strong></font></p>
<p align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2"><strong>P: 39.10</strong></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"2"><strong>E: 13.10</strong></font></p>
<p>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">2) Rudder slop - I&#39;ve got a fair amoint and I&#39;v=
e checked out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing=
 rudder bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty =
daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if th=
ere was a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?=
 </font></p>

<p><font size=3D"3"></font>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3"></font>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Regards</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3"></font>=A0</p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Carl</font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3">Pressure Drop </font></p></font></font></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--0016e642d49a7ce9bb0463f0b7ff--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 05:14:50 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:14:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
In-Reply-To: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e632c32f16e32.49a8c84a@optonline.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Carl wins on this.  From the original brochure, the following specs:
 
Sail Area (100% Foretriangle) 560 SF
I = 45.00'
J = 13.33'
P = 39.12'
E = 13.12'
 
The "E" I noted in an earlier email was listed on the web as the PHRF LIS measurements/ratings.  My own PHRF cert shows an "E" of 13.40'.  I guess I'll be measuring this spring.
 
Let's do the math: if the foretriangle is 1/2*J*P = 260.73 SF, subtract from 560 SF leaving 299.26 SF for the main - in theory.  Therefore, 290 SF seems a mite small, but I would also not interpret 299 as the maximum.  The hard numbers are I, J, P, & E, and that the fixed backstay made of SS Rod Rigging must remain.  If anyone feels that the definition is too loose we can address it as a class, but I haven't heard anyone complain yet that someone has "over-roached".
 
Art


----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Gish 
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:26 am
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet 
> 
> 1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most 
> appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that 
> has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no 
> main sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirement 
> in the class association rules and regulations. What size sail 
> do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are  I: 45.00
> J: 13.48
> P: 39.10
> E: 13.10
>  
> 2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the 
> extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder 
> bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a 
> pretty daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better 
> expression) if there was a relatively lightweight way to check 
> the beadring/drop the rudder? 
>  
> Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
>  
> Regards
>  
> Carl
> Pressure Drop 

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=3CDIV=3ECarl wins on this=2E=26nbsp=3B From the original brochure=2C th=
e following specs=3A=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3ESail Area (100=25 Foretriangle) 560 SF=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EI =3D 45=2E00=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EJ =3D 13=2E33=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EP =3D 39=2E12=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EE =3D 13=2E12=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EThe =22E=22 I noted in an earlier email was listed on the web a=
s the PHRF=26nbsp=3BLIS=26nbsp=3Bmeasurements/ratings=2E=26nbsp=3B My ow=
n PHRF=26nbsp=3Bcert=26nbsp=3Bshows an =22E=22 of 13=2E40=27=2E=26nbsp=3B=
 I guess I=27ll be measuring this spring=2E=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3ELet=27s do the math=3A if the foretriangle=26nbsp=3Bis 1/2*J*P =
=3D 260=2E73 SF=2C subtract from 560 SF=26nbsp=3Bleaving 299=2E26 SF=26n=
bsp=3Bfor the main - in theory=2E=26nbsp=3B Therefore=2C 290 SF=26nbsp=3B=
seems a mite small=2C but I would also not interpret 299 as the maximum=2E=
=26nbsp=3B The hard numbers are I=2C J=2C P=2C =26amp=3B E=2C and that t=
he fixed backstay=26nbsp=3Bmade of SS=26nbsp=3BRod Rigging must remain=2E=
=26nbsp=3B If anyone feels that the definition is too loose we can addre=
ss it as a class=2C but I haven=27t heard anyone complain yet that someo=
ne has =22over-roached=22=2E=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EArt=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=3CBR=3E=3CBR=3E----- Original Message -----=3CBR=3EFrom=3A Car=
l Gish=26nbsp=3B=3CCARLGISH=40YAHOO=2ECOM=3E=3CBR=3EDate=3A Friday=2C Fe=
bruary 27=2C 2009 10=3A26 am=3CBR=3ESubject=3A =5Bfrers-list=5DMain sail=
 area and rudder slop=3CBR=3ETo=3A frers-list=40lists=2Efrers33=2Ecom=3C=
BR=3E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Two questions for the esteemed Frers=26nbsp=3Bflee=
t =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B 1) I=27m getting a new main made and=
 I=27m wondering what the most =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B appropriate cut us=2E I=27=
ve got one qoute=26nbsp=3Bfor a 290 sqft=26nbsp=3Bsail that =3CBR=3E=26g=
t=3B has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq=26nbsp=3Bft=26nbsp=3B=
sail=2E I saw no =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B main sail area requirement in the Is t=
here a class requirement =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B in the class association rules=
 and regulations=2E What size sail =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B do most boats carry=3F=
 the measurements I am using are=26nbsp=3B I=3A 45=2E00=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =
J=3A 13=2E48=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B P=3A 39=2E10=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B E=3A 13=2E10=3C=
BR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B 2) Rudder slop - I=27ve got a f=
air amoint and I=27ve checked out the =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B extensive reading=
 provided by a couple people on changing rudder =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B bearing=
s on the site but before I take on what seems like a =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B pr=
etty daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better =3CBR=3E=26=
gt=3B expression) if there was a relatively lightweight way to check =3C=
BR=3E=26gt=3B the beadring/drop the rudder=3F =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=
=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B=
 =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Regards=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26=
gt=3B Carl=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Pressure Drop =3C/DIV=3E

--Boundary_(ID_cQxxiTgJw7ylpRByaQ5WrQ)--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 05:16:30 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:16:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Wing Keel?
Message-ID: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>

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Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching the sail area question.  I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here dated 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11").  Has anyone heard of any having been built?  There is a Frers-41 next to me in the yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
 
Art

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<DIV>
<DIV>Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching the sail area question.&nbsp; I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here dated 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11").&nbsp; Has anyone heard of any having been built?&nbsp; There is a Frers-41 next to me in the yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Art</DIV></DIV>

--Boundary_(ID_O4/aqSm4jfsKg0P5aD1i3Q)--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 11:56:41 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Neal Melanson)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:56:41 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Wing Keel?
In-Reply-To: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>
References: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <5d64faee0902280356m69b4acb3j9445c66d42918d53@mail.gmail.com>

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There was a wing keeled 33 advertised for sale in West Florida some years
ago...

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 12:16 AM, <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:

>  Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching the
> sail area question.  I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here dated
> 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11").  Has anyone heard of
> any having been built?  There is a Frers-41 next to me in the yard with a
> wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
>
> Art
>

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There was a wing keeled 33 advertised for sale in West Florida some years a=
go...<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 12:16 AM, <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div>Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching t=
he sail area question.=A0 I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here da=
ted 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4&#39;11&quot;).=A0 Has an=
yone heard of any having been built?=A0 There is a Frers-41 next to me in t=
he yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Art</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--0015175770b24d91d20463f9477b--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 12:28:08 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (rod stright)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:28:08 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
Message-ID: <ACB56F9FBB3D45B39177BBDA79849342@CMSS>

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It is the one that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurricane.  In my quest for info on the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had a shoal draft winged keel.  It may have been the only one built and was only built in 1990.

Rod

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16809" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>It is the one that you have listed on the 
website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurricane.&nbsp; In my quest for info on 
the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had a 
shoal draft winged keel.&nbsp; It may have been the only one built and was only 
built in 1990.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Rod</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#000080 
size=2></FONT></EM></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 14:26:02 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Richard Saunders)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
References: <ACB56F9FBB3D45B39177BBDA79849342@CMSS>
Message-ID: <707740.90706.qm@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

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Here's an ad for "Frers a Jack" with photos, but none of the keel.=0Ahttp:/=
/ads.boatboss.com/69_West_Palm_Beach/9166_FRERS_33_Sailboat_for_sale.html=
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: rod stright <strightr@eas=
tlink.ca>=0ATo: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=0ASent: Saturday, February 28,=
 2009 7:28:08 AM=0ASubject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack=0A=0A=0AIt is the one =
that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurrica=
ne.=A0 In my quest for info on the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner=
 and he mentioned the boat had a shoal draft winged keel.=A0 It may have be=
en the only one built and was only built in 1990.=0A=A0=0ARod
--0-991104259-1235831162=:90706
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><DIV>Here's an ad for "Frers a Jack" with photos, but none of the keel.</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://ads.boatboss.com/69_West_Palm_Beach/9166_FRERS_33_Sailboat_for_sale.html">http://ads.boatboss.com/69_West_Palm_Beach/9166_FRERS_33_Sailboat_for_sale.html</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> rod stright &lt;strightr@eastlink.ca&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, February 28, 2009 7:28:08 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [frers-list]Frers A Jack<BR></FONT><BR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>It is the one that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurricane.&nbsp; In my quest for info on the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had a shoal draft winged keel.&nbsp; It may have been the only one built and was only built in 1990.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Rod</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#000080 size=2></FONT></EM></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
--0-991104259-1235831162=:90706--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 14:58:57 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Robert DeConto)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:58:57 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Wing Keel?
In-Reply-To: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>
References: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <F1A6364E-3732-4F1B-8CAE-6993A5C1DAB4@geo.umass.edu>

Hi Art,

When I first started looking for a F33 (~3 or 4 years ago), there was  
a boat for sale in Florida (listed on Yacht World) that was described  
as a shallow draft version with 5' draft. That's the only one I've  
heard of though.

   -- Rob



On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:16 AM, akelley@optonline.net wrote:

> Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching  
> the sail area question.  I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer  
> here dated 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11").  Has  
> anyone heard of any having been built?  There is a Frers-41 next to  
> me in the yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
>
> Art




From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 18:34:21 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:34:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
In-Reply-To: <707740.90706.qm@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <ACB56F9FBB3D45B39177BBDA79849342@CMSS>
 <707740.90706.qm@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e445e83b1699b.49a983ad@optonline.net>

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I hadn't seen these photos before.  But this looks like an awesome concept - a trailerable Frers-33!  Just need to figure out how to refit the keel at the other end.....
 
Thanks,
Art

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Saunders 
Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:27 am
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Here's an ad for "Frers a Jack" with photos, but none of the keel.
> http://ads.boatboss.com/69_West_Palm_Beach/9166_FRERS_33_Sailboat_for_sale.html
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: rod stright 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 7:28:08 AM
> Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
> 
> 
> It is the one that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 
> and damaged in a hurricane.  In my quest for info on the Frers 
> 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had 
> a shoal draft winged keel.  It may have been the only one built 
> and was only built in 1990.
>  
> Rod

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=3CDIV=3EI hadn=27t seen these photos before=2E=26nbsp=3B But this looks=
 like an awesome concept - a trailerable=26nbsp=3BFrers-33!=26nbsp=3B Ju=
st need to figure out how to refit=26nbsp=3Bthe keel at the other end=2E=
=2E=2E=2E=2E=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EThanks=2C=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EArt=3CBR=3E=3CBR=3E----- Original Message -----=3CBR=3EFrom=3A =
Richard Saunders =3CRHSAUND=40YAHOO=2ECOM=3E=3CBR=3EDate=3A Saturday=2C =
February 28=2C 2009 9=3A27 am=3CBR=3ESubject=3A Re=3A =5Bfrers-list=5DFr=
ers=26nbsp=3BA Jack=3CBR=3ETo=3A frers-list=40lists=2Efrers33=2Ecom=3CBR=
=3E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Here=27s an ad for =22Frers=26nbsp=3Ba Jack=22 with =
photos=2C but none of the keel=2E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//ads=2Eboatbos=
s=2Ecom/69=5FWest=5FPalm=5FBeach/9166=5FFRERS=5F33=5FSailboat=5Ffor=5Fsa=
le=2Ehtml=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B From=3A rod stright=26nbsp=3B=3CSTRIGHTR=40=
EASTLINK=2ECA=3E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B To=3A frers-list=40lists=2Efrers33=2Eco=
m=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Sent=3A Saturday=2C February 28=2C 2009 7=3A28=3A08 AM=
=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Subject=3A =5Bfrers-list=5DFrers=26nbsp=3BA Jack=3CBR=3E=
=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B It is the one that you have l=
isted on the website=2C built in 1990 =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B and damaged in a =
hurricane=2E=26nbsp=3B In my quest for info on the Frers=26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=
=26gt=3B 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat ha=
d =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B a shoal draft winged keel=2E=26nbsp=3B It may have be=
en the only one built =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B and was only built in 1990=2E=3CB=
R=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Rod=3C/DIV=3E

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Feb 28 18:49:51 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:49:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Frers Class Stuff
In-Reply-To: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>
References: <e460c3fd1536f.49a8c8ae@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <e3a99a9113051.49a9874f@optonline.net>

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Hey - While I have everyone's attention, two things;
1. Who's up for a party in Newport in early July?  We'll all bring our boats and a few friends, and see who can get around some 
bouys the fastest.  Then we'll have a big party on shore and do it all again the next day.  Sound like fun?
2. Class dues are coming due.  Dave's been handling the bills, so look for a message from him.  We are trying to come up with creative ways to boost participation, and raise funds.  Our only expenses are for the Web site - and I know you wouldn't want to lose that, and the ad we run in the One Design section of Sailing World that helps attract new owners.
Keep the chatter going!
Art

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<P>Hey - While I have everyone's attention, two things;</P>
<P>1. Who's up for a party in Newport in early July?&nbsp; We'll all bring our boats and a few friends, and see who can get around some </P>bouys&nbsp;the fastest.&nbsp; Then we'll have a big party on shore and do it all again the next day.&nbsp; Sound like fun?
<P></P>
<P>2. Class dues are coming due.&nbsp; Dave's been handling the bills, so look for a message from him.&nbsp; We are trying to come up with creative ways to boost participation, and raise funds.&nbsp; Our only expenses are for the&nbsp;Web site - and I know you wouldn't want to lose that, and the ad we run in the One Design section of Sailing World that helps attract new owners.</P>
<P>Keep the chatter going!</P>
<P>Art</P>

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