From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Thu Sep  3 05:20:32 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Jeremy Keene)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:20:32 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
In-Reply-To: <350ecd3c0908301355t204eda2du2023aefd4eb46308@mail.gmail.com>
References: <350ecd3c0908301355t204eda2du2023aefd4eb46308@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <350ecd3c0909022120o1d3df94cpab1d3f052863b2a2@mail.gmail.com>

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Sorry, couldn't tell if this got posted or not...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeremy Keene <jerkeene@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Subject: Cored Hull Issues?
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com


Hello,

I'm looking at a Frers 33 that is for sale at our dock. Doing a little
research, it seems that the cored hull could be a concern (see link below),
especially with any kind of damage or improper hardware installation. Has
anyone experienced these types of issues with the Frers 33? Is the entire
hull cored, or just the topsides?

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/cored_hull_bottoms.htm

Thanks

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Sorry, couldn&#39;t tell if this got posted or not...<br><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"g=
mail_sendername">Jeremy Keene</b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
erkeene@gmail.com">jerkeene@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>
Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM<br>Subject: Cored Hull Issues?<br>To: <a=
 href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
/a><br><br><br>Hello,<br><br>I&#39;m looking at a Frers 33 that is for sale=
 at our dock. Doing a little research, it seems that the cored hull could b=
e a concern (see link below), especially with any kind of damage or imprope=
r hardware installation. Has anyone experienced these types of issues with =
the Frers 33? Is the entire hull cored, or just the topsides?<br>

<br><a href=3D"http://www.yachtsurvey.com/cored_hull_bottoms.htm" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.yachtsurvey.com/cored_hull_bottoms.htm</a> <br><br>Than=
ks<br><br><br>
</div><br>

--0016e6db66fa54fe1f0472a4b421--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Thu Sep  3 22:12:46 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Mark Dixon)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:12:46 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
In-Reply-To: <350ecd3c0909022120o1d3df94cpab1d3f052863b2a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <350ecd3c0908301355t204eda2du2023aefd4eb46308@mail.gmail.com> <350ecd3c0909022120o1d3df94cpab1d3f052863b2a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA0314E.6060302@sbcglobal.net>

Hi Jeremy.  In looking at those photos in the article, I see issues 
where the author only used info that supports his theories. To wit, look 
at the photo withthe diamond plate non skid..... I haven't seen any like 
thatsince a 70s vintage Taylorcraft! (Ugh).  I wouldn't be overly 
concerned about generic into but more about the boat you're looking at, 
and its survey.
Where or what boat are you looking at? Where do you sail?
If I'm not mistaken, the F33 is balsa cored to the waterline and solid 
glass below.
Regards, Mark

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep  4 01:50:18 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (FRANCIS ALBERT)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:50:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
In-Reply-To: <4AA0314E.6060302@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3280.4474.qm@web81108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--0-95542989-1252025418=:4474
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I'm not sure if the Frers 33=A0had core material=A0below the water line=A0b=
ut I don't believe it did.=A0 Below is a=A0portion of a review of the Frers=
 33.=A0
=A0
=A0
The hull and deck of the Frers 33 were built utilizing a composite construc=
tion of fiberglass and resin laminates on either side of a core material. T=
he hull is cored with balsa throughout. Because balsa is subject to failure=
 under high compression loads, deck areas subject to high compression loads=
 are cored with plywood, and other deck areas are cored with balsa for its =
lighter weight.=20

When core material is introduced into a fiberglass composite, production qu=
ality control becomes considerably more important. Carroll Marine Ltd. has =
considerable experience building boats utilizing core materials and, for th=
e most part, seems to do an outstanding job. My experience with the Frers 3=
3 has shown no problems with the hull composites, although I have noted som=
e failures of the athwart ship floor between the head and the hanging locke=
r and some secondary bonding failures at the main structure bulkhead port a=
nd starboard of the mast. My experience has shown mild to moderate delamina=
tion and moisture penetration of the decks which further emphasizes the abs=
olute necessity for properly mounting deck hardware on any cored deck.=20



--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Mark Dixon <econmar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


From: Mark Dixon <econmar@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 5:12 PM


Hi Jeremy.=A0 In looking at those photos in the article, I see issues where=
 the author only used info that supports his theories. To wit, look at the =
photo withthe diamond plate non skid..... I haven't seen any like thatsince=
 a 70s vintage Taylorcraft! (Ugh).=A0 I wouldn't be overly concerned about =
generic into but more about the boat you're looking at, and its survey.
Where or what boat are you looking at? Where do you sail?
If I'm not mistaken, the F33 is balsa cored to the waterline and solid glas=
s below.
Regards, Mark
_______________________________________________
frers-list mailing list
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list

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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>I'm not sure if the Frers 33&nbsp;had co=
re material&nbsp;below the water line&nbsp;but I don't believe it did.&nbsp=
; Below is a&nbsp;portion of a review of the Frers 33.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The hull and deck of the Frers 33 were built utilizing a composite con=
struction of fiberglass and resin laminates on either side of a core materi=
al. The hull is cored with balsa throughout. Because balsa is subject to fa=
ilure under high compression loads, deck areas subject to high compression =
loads are cored with plywood, and other deck areas are cored with balsa for=
 its lighter weight. <BR><BR>When core material is introduced into a fiberg=
lass composite, production quality control becomes considerably more import=
ant. Carroll Marine Ltd. has considerable experience building boats utilizi=
ng core materials and, for the most part, seems to do an outstanding job. M=
y experience with the Frers 33 has shown no problems with the hull composit=
es, although I have noted some failures of the athwart ship floor between t=
he head and the hanging locker and some secondary bonding failures at the m=
ain structure bulkhead port and starboard of the mast. My experience
 has shown mild to moderate delamination and moisture penetration of the de=
cks which further emphasizes the absolute necessity for properly mounting d=
eck hardware on any cored deck. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/3/09, Mark Dixon <I>&lt;econmar@sbcglobal.net=
&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Mark Dixon &lt;econmar@sbcglobal.net&gt;<BR=
>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?<BR>To: frers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com<BR>Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 5:12 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>Hi Jeremy.&nbsp; In looking at those photos in the a=
rticle, I see issues where the author only used info that supports his theo=
ries. To wit, look at the photo withthe diamond plate non skid..... I haven=
't seen any like thatsince a 70s vintage Taylorcraft! (Ugh).&nbsp; I wouldn=
't be overly concerned about generic into but more about the boat you're lo=
oking at, and its survey.<BR>Where or what boat are you looking at? Where d=
o you sail?<BR>If I'm not mistaken, the F33 is balsa cored to the waterline=
 and solid glass below.<BR>Regards, Mark<BR>_______________________________=
________________<BR>frers-list mailing list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc811.m=
ail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" ymailto=3D"mail=
to:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</A><BR><A hre=
f=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list"
 target=3D_blank>http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</A><B=
R></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
--0-95542989-1252025418=:4474--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep  4 12:16:45 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:16:45 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
References: <3280.4474.qm@web81108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <643C79AF2C0144C88AD2454C54512A03@ArtDell910>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Actually from Frank's excerpt which I believe was from Jack Horner's =
review, I believe the bottom is cored, but I do not know this for a =
fact.

I can tell you that the Tartan 10 class is fraught with problems with =
hulls delaminating as they were built in rush, and the builder really =
skimped on resin in the layup, partly to minimize weight (7500 lbs?).  A =
friend of mine bought one of these as a project, and what a project it =
was.  As Frank and Jack point out, the quality of the original =
construction is key!

That said, if you take a collision below the waterline, or install a new =
through hull fitting, make absolutely sure you yoju properly treat the =
interior of the hole with epoxy resin to seal the core.  Of course you =
are unlikely ever to need to drill a new hole in the bottom.

On the other hand, people regularly change deck fittings.  Most builders =
core the topsides and deck to reduce weight and lower the center of =
gravity.  As Jack points out in the article, a responsible builder uses =
a plywood core in areas where winches and high-strain items are =
installed to reduce compression issues, and to reduce the effects of any =
water intrusion into the core. If you climb into the lazerette on a =
sunny day, you can see the placement of the plywood as shadows in the =
deck.

Have the boat surveyed by a responsible surveyor.  He needs to tap the =
full and deck with a plastic faced mallet to check for delamination, and =
use a moisture meter all over.  There is a reasonable liklihood of =
moisture in the deck near the shrouds as that area works quite a bit =
(common to all cored decks).  This is not a bad repair job if it ever =
needs to be done, not like a bottom.  A couple of owners have reported =
doing this.

The other area I have heard of as being a problem is the mast step.  =
Problems there tend to be obvious.  Later boats were modified slightly, =
and a retrofit was offered by Carroll Marine to change the loading on =
the step.  Look for a short shroud below deck tieing the deck to the =
mast.  Not absolutely required, but it's presence indicates the =
modification was made.

In all, among boats of the same age and category (racer/cruiser), the =
boats are very well built, well respected, and holding their value well. =
The problems we've discussed on this forum (which you can read in the =
archives) are all pretty typical, and fewer than most similar boats.

I have only known of one Frers 33 that had a significant problem.  I =
personally walked the deck and felt the softness.  I rejected the boat =
out of hand.  The person who bought the boat a couple of years later, =
got it at a good price and did a complete refit.

Good luck with your decision, and keep in touch if you move forward with =
the purchase.

Art

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: FRANCIS ALBERT=20
  To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?


        I'm not sure if the Frers 33 had core material below the water =
line but I don't believe it did.  Below is a portion of a review of the =
Frers 33.=20


        The hull and deck of the Frers 33 were built utilizing a =
composite construction of fiberglass and resin laminates on either side =
of a core material. The hull is cored with balsa throughout. Because =
balsa is subject to failure under high compression loads, deck areas =
subject to high compression loads are cored with plywood, and other deck =
areas are cored with balsa for its lighter weight.=20

        When core material is introduced into a fiberglass composite, =
production quality control becomes considerably more important. Carroll =
Marine Ltd. has considerable experience building boats utilizing core =
materials and, for the most part, seems to do an outstanding job. My =
experience with the Frers 33 has shown no problems with the hull =
composites, although I have noted some failures of the athwart ship =
floor between the head and the hanging locker and some secondary bonding =
failures at the main structure bulkhead port and starboard of the mast. =
My experience has shown mild to moderate delamination and moisture =
penetration of the decks which further emphasizes the absolute necessity =
for properly mounting deck hardware on any cored deck.=20



        --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Mark Dixon <econmar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


          From: Mark Dixon <econmar@sbcglobal.net>
          Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
          To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
          Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 5:12 PM


          Hi Jeremy.  In looking at those photos in the article, I see =
issues where the author only used info that supports his theories. To =
wit, look at the photo withthe diamond plate non skid..... I haven't =
seen any like thatsince a 70s vintage Taylorcraft! (Ugh).  I wouldn't be =
overly concerned about generic into but more about the boat you're =
looking at, and its survey.
          Where or what boat are you looking at? Where do you sail?
          If I'm not mistaken, the F33 is balsa cored to the waterline =
and solid glass below.
          Regards, Mark
          _______________________________________________
          frers-list mailing list
          frers-list@lists.frers33.com
          http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
      =20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18812">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Actually from Frank's excerpt which I =
believe was=20
from Jack Horner's review, I believe the bottom is cored, but I do not =
know this=20
for a fact.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I can tell you that the Tartan 10 class =
is fraught=20
with problems with hulls delaminating as they were built in rush, and =
the=20
builder really skimped on resin in the layup, partly&nbsp;to minimize =
weight=20
(7500 lbs?).&nbsp; A friend of mine bought one of these as a project, =
and what a=20
project it was.&nbsp; As Frank and Jack point out, the quality of the =
original=20
construction is key!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>That said, if you take a collision =
below the=20
waterline, or install a new through hull fitting, make absolutely sure =
you yoju=20
properly treat the interior of the hole with epoxy resin to seal the =
core.&nbsp;=20
Of course you are unlikely ever to need to drill a new hole in the=20
bottom.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>On the other hand, people regularly =
change deck=20
fittings.&nbsp; Most builders core the topsides and deck to reduce =
weight and=20
lower the center of gravity.&nbsp; As Jack points out in the article, a=20
responsible builder uses a plywood core in areas where winches and =
high-strain=20
items are installed to reduce compression issues, and to reduce the =
effects of=20
any water intrusion into the core.&nbsp;If you climb into the lazerette =
on a=20
sunny day, you can see the placement of the plywood as shadows in the=20
deck.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Have the boat surveyed by a responsible =

surveyor.&nbsp; He needs to tap the full and deck with a plastic faced =
mallet to=20
check for delamination, and use a moisture meter all over.&nbsp; There =
is a=20
reasonable liklihood of moisture in the deck near the shrouds as that =
area works=20
quite a bit (common to all cored decks).&nbsp; This is not a bad repair =
job if=20
it ever needs to be done, not like a bottom.&nbsp; A couple of owners =
have=20
reported doing this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The other area I have heard of as being =
a problem=20
is the mast step.&nbsp;&nbsp;Problems there tend to be obvious.&nbsp; =
Later=20
boats were modified slightly, and a retrofit was offered by&nbsp;Carroll =

Marine&nbsp;to change the loading on the step.&nbsp; Look for a short =
shroud=20
below deck tieing the deck to the mast.&nbsp; Not absolutely required, =
but it's=20
presence indicates the modification was made.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>In all, among boats of the same age and =
category=20
(racer/cruiser), the boats are very well built, well respected, and =
holding=20
their value well.&nbsp;The problems we've discussed on this forum (which =
you can=20
read in the archives) are all pretty typical, and fewer than most =
similar=20
boats.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I have only known of one Frers 33 that =
had a=20
significant&nbsp;problem.&nbsp; I personally walked the deck and felt =
the=20
softness.&nbsp; I rejected the boat out of hand.&nbsp; The person who =
bought the=20
boat a couple of years later, got it at a good price and did a complete=20
refit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Good luck with your decision, and keep =
in touch if=20
you move forward with the purchase.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Art</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">FRANCIS=20
  ALBERT</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 03, =
2009 8:50=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [frers-list]Fwd: =
Cored Hull=20
  Issues?</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D2 =
face=3DArial></FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD vAlign=3Dtop>
        <DIV>I'm not sure if the Frers 33&nbsp;had core =
material&nbsp;below the=20
        water line&nbsp;but I don't believe it did.&nbsp; Below is=20
        a&nbsp;portion of a review of the Frers 33.&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>The hull and deck of the Frers 33 were built utilizing a =
composite=20
        construction of fiberglass and resin laminates on either side of =
a core=20
        material. The hull is cored with balsa throughout. Because balsa =
is=20
        subject to failure under high compression loads, deck areas =
subject to=20
        high compression loads are cored with plywood, and other deck =
areas are=20
        cored with balsa for its lighter weight. <BR><BR>When core =
material is=20
        introduced into a fiberglass composite, production quality =
control=20
        becomes considerably more important. Carroll Marine Ltd. has=20
        considerable experience building boats utilizing core materials =
and, for=20
        the most part, seems to do an outstanding job. My experience =
with the=20
        Frers 33 has shown no problems with the hull composites, =
although I have=20
        noted some failures of the athwart ship floor between the head =
and the=20
        hanging locker and some secondary bonding failures at the main =
structure=20
        bulkhead port and starboard of the mast. My experience has shown =
mild to=20
        moderate delamination and moisture penetration of the decks =
which=20
        further emphasizes the absolute necessity for properly mounting =
deck=20
        hardware on any cored deck. <BR></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D2=20
        face=3DArial></FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 9/3/09, Mark Dixon=20
        <I>&lt;econmar@sbcglobal.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE=20
        style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT=20
          size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D2 =
face=3DArial></FONT><BR>From: Mark=20
          Dixon &lt;econmar@sbcglobal.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: =
[frers-list]Fwd:=20
          Cored Hull Issues?<BR>To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date:=20
          Thursday, September 3, 2009, 5:12 PM<BR><BR>
          <DIV class=3DplainMail>Hi Jeremy.&nbsp; In looking at those =
photos in=20
          the article, I see issues where the author only used info that =

          supports his theories. To wit, look at the photo withthe =
diamond plate=20
          non skid..... I haven't seen any like thatsince a 70s vintage=20
          Taylorcraft! (Ugh).&nbsp; I wouldn't be overly concerned about =
generic=20
          into but more about the boat you're looking at, and its=20
          survey.<BR>Where or what boat are you looking at? Where do you =

          sail?<BR>If I'm not mistaken, the F33 is balsa cored to the =
waterline=20
          and solid glass below.<BR>Regards,=20
          =
Mark<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>frers-list=20
          mailing list<BR><A=20
          =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"=20
          =
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.=
com</A><BR><A=20
          href=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list"=20
          =
target=3D_blank>http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</A><=
BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Sep  5 19:27:13 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Bob A.)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:27:13 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Fwd: Cored Hull Issues?
References: <3280.4474.qm@web81108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
 <643C79AF2C0144C88AD2454C54512A03@ArtDell910>
Message-ID: <000901ca2e56$7d33eaa0$a0b12e18@oemcomputer>

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If memory serves me correctly, the topsides down to about the waterline are cored.....the bottom is solid laminate.
If one looks under the bunks inside the cabin, a change in hull thickness can be seen.  I believe this is the transition from cored to solid.
 
                               Bob Ames,  Windswept 3.



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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If memory serves me correctly, the topsides down to 
about the waterline are cored.....the bottom is solid laminate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If one looks under the bunks inside the cabin, a 
change in hull thickness can be seen.&nbsp; I believe this is the transition 
from cored to solid.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Bob 
Ames,&nbsp; Windswept 3.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep 11 06:01:17 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (John Rimel)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:01:17 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]Compressed Natural Gas conversion to propane on the Frers 33
Message-ID: <FA6DBA67-2532-4101-8658-DD5C05BAEB81@mtnpress.com>

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We're possibly looking at a 1981 Frers 33. It appears to be equipped  
with compressed natural gas (CNG) for stove, cabin heat and hot water.  
Storage of the tanks is not currently isolated from the cabin and  
engine compartments. I know CNG was a popular option for a number of  
boats made in the 80s, but am wondering if any Frers 33 owners have  
converted to propane and how they have handled the addition of a fuel  
storage locker. It seems today that availability of CNG might be  
difficult to come by and that switching to another more readily  
available fuel source might make sense. However a conversion, due to  
venting issues, is not without problems.

I've been reading over the archives and have been very impressed with  
the community and fellowship this group has. I've been crewing on a  
Frers 30 and am excited about the prospect of sailing a 33.

Thanks in advance.

Best,

John Rimel
E-mail: jrimel@mtnpress.com



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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">We're possibly looking at a =
1981 Frers 33. It appears to be equipped with compressed natural gas =
(CNG) for stove, cabin heat and hot water. Storage of the tanks is not =
currently isolated from the cabin and engine compartments. I know CNG =
was a popular option for a number of boats made in the 80s, but am =
wondering if any Frers 33 owners have converted to propane and how they =
have handled the addition of a fuel storage locker. It seems today that =
availability of CNG might be difficult to come by and that switching to =
another more readily available fuel source might make sense. However a =
conversion, due to venting issues, is not without =
problems.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I've been reading over the archives =
and have been very impressed with the community and fellowship this =
group&nbsp;has. I've been crewing on a Frers 30 and am excited about the =
prospect of sailing a 33.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks in =
advance.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Best,&nbsp;</div><div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">John Rimel</font></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:jrimel@mtnpress.com">jrimel@mtnpress.com</a></font></p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
0.0px"><br></p></span></span></span></div></span> =
</div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-75--539828958--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep 11 16:39:02 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Bob A.)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:39:02 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Compressed Natural Gas conversion to propane on the
 Frers 33
References: <FA6DBA67-2532-4101-8658-DD5C05BAEB81@mtnpress.com>
Message-ID: <001601ca32f5$fd95a6e0$a0b12e18@oemcomputer>

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John:
    My Frers was equipped with CNG.  Even though it's heat content was less than propane, it provided more than enough for the stove/oven.  ( hot water was via engine cooling water heat exchanger. )  Being lighter than air, any leaking CNG would vent up-and-out, and not down into the bilge/engine area as would propane.
With the diesel engine and CNG cooking, I felt I had the safest racer / cruiser configuration.
 
                                       Bob Ames.



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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My Frers was equipped with 
CNG.&nbsp; Even though it's heat content was less than propane, it provided more 
than enough for the stove/oven.&nbsp; ( hot water was via engine cooling water 
heat exchanger. )&nbsp; Being lighter than air, any leaking CNG would vent 
up-and-out, and not down into the bilge/engine area as would 
propane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With the diesel engine and CNG cooking, I felt I 
had the safest racer / cruiser configuration.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
Bob Ames.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep 11 18:34:55 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (John Rimel)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:34:55 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]correction
Message-ID: <7F4ED1D7-68EE-4EB7-8356-EF4D9695408A@mtnpress.com>

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My apologies, the boat we're looking at is a 1986, not 1981.

John Rimel
E-mail: jrimel@mtnpress.com
Cell: 406-880-2464



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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">My apologies, the boat we're =
looking at is a 1986, not 1981.&nbsp;<div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">John Rimel</font></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:jrimel@mtnpress.com">jrimel@mtnpress.com</a></font></p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">Cell: 406-880-2464</p><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></div></span> =
</div><br></div></body></html>=

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Sep 12 11:57:37 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (rod stright)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:57:37 -0300
Subject: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33
Message-ID: <3C436AA3582D4E4DAF86459E5D383C19@CMSS>

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Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has installed a bilge blower in the Frers 33?  Although not required for the diesel it does do a good job of removing the smell of diesel and helping with the flow of air around the engine.

Just curious if anyone has installed one and if so where the exhaust is located.

Thanks
Rod Stright
Equinox

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<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Hi Guys,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Just wondering if anyone has installed a bilge 
blower in the Frers 33? &nbsp;Although not required for the diesel it does do a 
good job of removing the smell of diesel and helping with the flow of air around 
the engine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Just curious if anyone has installed one and if 
so where the exhaust is located.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2>Rod 
Stright<BR>Equinox</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Sep 12 12:23:55 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Scott Marino)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 04:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33
In-Reply-To: <3C436AA3582D4E4DAF86459E5D383C19@CMSS>
Message-ID: <823803.99909.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

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Rod,
I acquired Risoluto with a bilge blower already installed.=A0 The exhaust i=
s located near the top of the transom inside the cockpit.
Scott

--- On Sat, 9/12/09, rod stright <strightr@eastlink.ca> wrote:


From: rod stright <strightr@eastlink.ca>
Subject: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 6:57 AM





Hi Guys,
=A0
Just wondering if anyone has installed a bilge blower in the Frers 33? =A0A=
lthough not required for the diesel it does do a good job of removing the s=
mell of diesel and helping with the flow of air around the engine.
=A0
Just curious if anyone has installed one and if so where the exhaust is loc=
ated.
=A0
Thanks
Rod Stright
Equinox=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Rod,</DIV>
<DIV>I acquired Risoluto with a bilge blower already installed.&nbsp; The e=
xhaust is located near the top of the transom inside the cockpit.</DIV>
<DIV>Scott<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 9/12/09, rod stright <I>&lt;strightr@eastl=
ink.ca&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: rod stright &lt;strightr@eastlink.ca&gt;<BR=
>Subject: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33=
.com<BR>Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 6:57 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1788430954>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Hi Guys,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Just wondering if anyone has installed =
a bilge blower in the Frers 33? &nbsp;Although not required for the diesel =
it does do a good job of removing the smell of diesel and helping with the =
flow of air around the engine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Just curious if anyone has installed on=
e and if so where the exhaust is located.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 size=3D2>Rod Stright<BR>Equinox</FONT></DIV></DI=
V></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
--0-337790718-1252754635=:99909--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Sat Sep 12 15:22:07 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:22:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33
In-Reply-To: <823803.99909.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <3C436AA3582D4E4DAF86459E5D383C19@CMSS>
 <823803.99909.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e3e6df13626d.4aabae8f@optonline.net>

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Mine is similarly equipped, vent just below the helm seat.
 
Art

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Marino 
Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:29 am
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Rod,
> I acquired Risoluto with a bilge blower already installed.  The 
> exhaust is located near the top of the transom inside the cockpit.
> Scott
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/12/09, rod stright wrote:
> 
> 
> From: rod stright 
> Subject: [frers-list]Bilge Blower Frers 33
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 6:57 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Guys,
>  
> Just wondering if anyone has installed a bilge blower in the 
> Frers 33?  Although not required for the diesel it does do a 
> good job of removing the smell of diesel and helping with the 
> flow of air around the engine.
>  
> Just curious if anyone has installed one and if so where the 
> exhaust is located.
>  
> Thanks
> Rod Stright
> Equinox
> 
> 
> 

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=3CDIV=3EMine is similarly equipped=2C vent just below the helm seat=2E=3C=
/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EArt=3CBR=3E=3CBR=3E----- Original Message -----=3CBR=3EFrom=3A =
Scott Marino =3CSCOTTAMARINO=40YAHOO=2ECOM=3E=3CBR=3EDate=3A Saturday=2C=
 September 12=2C 2009 7=3A29 am=3CBR=3ESubject=3A Re=3A =5Bfrers-list=5D=
Bilge Blower Frers=26nbsp=3B33=3CBR=3ETo=3A frers-list=40lists=2Efrers33=
=2Ecom=3CBR=3E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Rod=2C=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B I acquired Risolut=
o=26nbsp=3Bwith a bilge blower already installed=2E=26nbsp=3B The =3CBR=3E=
=26gt=3B exhaust is located near the top of the transom inside the cockp=
it=2E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Scott=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B --- On Sat=2C=
 9/12/09=2C rod stright=26nbsp=3B=3CSTRIGHTR=40EASTLINK=2ECA=3Ewrote=3A=3C=
BR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B From=3A rod stright=26nb=
sp=3B=3CSTRIGHTR=40EASTLINK=2ECA=3E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Subject=3A =5Bfrers-=
list=5DBilge Blower Frers=26nbsp=3B33=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B To=3A frers-list=40=
lists=2Efrers33=2Ecom=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Date=3A Saturday=2C September 12=2C=
 2009=2C 6=3A57 AM=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3C=
BR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Hi Guys=2C=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B=
 =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Just wondering if anyone has installed a bil=
ge blower in the =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Frers=26nbsp=3B33=3F =26nbsp=3BAlthoug=
h not required for the diesel it does do a =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B good job of =
removing the smell of diesel and helping with the =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B flow =
of air around the engine=2E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B J=
ust curious if anyone has installed one and if so where the =3CBR=3E=26g=
t=3B exhaust is located=2E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Th=
anks=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Rod Stright=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Equinox=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B=
 =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3C/DIV=3E

--Boundary_(ID_x5Lf54nZ7GL7E+Cgxogz3A)--

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep 18 04:04:42 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Mark Dixon)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:04:42 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]missing boats
Message-ID: <4AB2F8CA.8010902@sbcglobal.net>

To all: Since hull #1 has been located, does anyone know what happened 
to Gorilla, Vamp, Up Town Girl? What was the name of Haupia before that 
name. Put on your trivia caps..... Regards, Mark

From frers-list@lists.frers33.com  Fri Sep 18 14:08:47 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Dan Boyd)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:08:47 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]missing boats
In-Reply-To: <4AB2F8CA.8010902@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <OFDCD8C765.3C462829-ON85257635.00481A0B-85257635.0048381B@biogenidec.com>

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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Mark et al,

Hull #37 was originally named Gorilla.  She then became Freight Train and 
is now WildThing.

Cheers,
Dan


Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel:  1.617.679.2274
Fax:  1.617.679.3599




Mark Dixon <econmar@sbcglobal.net> 
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
17-Sep-2009 11:04 PM
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[frers-list]missing boats






To all: Since hull #1 has been located, does anyone know what happened 
to Gorilla, Vamp, Up Town Girl? What was the name of Haupia before that 
name. Put on your trivia caps..... Regards, Mark
_______________________________________________
frers-list mailing list
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list


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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Mark et al,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hull #37 was originally named Gorilla.
&nbsp;She then became Freight Train and is now WildThing.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Cheers,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dan<br>
</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dan Boyd<br>
Biogen Idec Inc<br>
Tel: &nbsp;1.617.679.2274<br>
Fax: &nbsp;1.617.679.3599<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Mark Dixon &lt;econmar@sbcglobal.net&gt;</b>
</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">17-Sep-2009 11:04 PM</font>
<table border>
<tr valign=top>
<td bgcolor=white>
<div align=center><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to<br>
frers-list@lists.frers33.com</font></div></table>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Message Size: <b>4.4 KB</b></font>
<td width=59%>
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<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">[frers-list]missing boats</font></table>
<br>
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<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>To all: Since hull #1 has been located, does anyone
know what happened <br>
to Gorilla, Vamp, Up Town Girl? What was the name of Haupia before that
<br>
name. Put on your trivia caps..... Regards, Mark<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
frers-list mailing list<br>
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br>
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list<br>
</tt></font>
<br>
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